Death metal is one thing, These Are They are another. Creating crushing riffs with hooks and melody is a hard row to hoe but they do it with ease. With their second full length out now on The End Records in the form of Disposing of Betrayers they have assumed, I feel at least, the mantle of THE death metal band of 2010. Paul Kuhr, the heavy throated vocalist of These Are They, checked in with Metal Exiles on the creation of this amazing record and his mindset on music.
An interview with Paul Kuhr of These Are They and Novembers Doom.
By Jeffrey Easton
Metal Exiles: You have only a two albums out since 2008. Are you surprised at how quickly the band is developing?
Paul Kuhr: It really came together fairly fast and developed quickly. I have never been in a band has moved this fast and written that quickly.
Metal Exiles: What have you found in These Are They that you did not find in Novembers Doom?
Paul: It is a completely different approach. Novembers Doom, from a lyrical side of things, is much more personal and serious in a way. Whereas These Are They, from the beginning, it is more fun. We pick a topic, research the subject and write about it. It is not like I am sitting down writing personal things and emotional lyrics. It is more of a party vibe rather than an emotional drain. That was the goal from the beginning, we said lets get together and have a good time, let’s have fun with the band.
Metal Exiles: Well, with this record, Disposing of Betrayers, it seems that thought had to be put into getting the stories just right.
Paul: Absolutely but it was a different thought process. When you are writing about a known topic it is easier than creating something in your own mind from a personal experience. It is more emotionally draining that way. It came together easier for me than past releases and the band put so much into the record arranging the music and every song had as much hook as possible. It was a lot of work and a lot of thought did go into the record. I do not want to come off sounding like we wrote it in a weekend.
Metal Exiles: I do listen to a lot of death metal and the one thing that puts me off is the amount of blast beats. Your record whereas has a lot of melody in it which to me sucks the listener in. Did you try to set yourself apart from the proverbial pack?
Paul: I will be totally honest with you. My guitar player, Steve Nicholson, formed Novembers Doom with me over twenty years ago and after album #1 Steve grew away from music, went on his own path and did his own thing for over 20 years. He had completely removed himself from the scene and had not heard a new metal band in 15 years. When we first got together, we got in contact and went out for beers one night. I asked him of the bands he has heard of, Amon Amarth, Opeth, and he had no idea what I was talking about. He will still not go out and listen to new bands, he refuses. All of the sound and influence that is coming from the band is him from 20 years ago. There was no effort to sound like anybody else, we just wrote hooky Chicago death metal. This is truly our roots and it may sound like retro but at a time it was Entombed, early Grave, Death.
Metal Exiles: Normal death metal is usually blatant carnage but you have tied this record to the Chicago organized crime scene. What is your fascination with that?
Paul: Chicago is rich in a lot of history and one thing that we want to do is not be a typical death metal band in concept and lyrics. We feel that every topic has been done to death, pardon the pun. The gore or the horror, every band has done it in this genre a million times. We said let’s try and keep everything local if we can and we thought about what is Chicago known for. When we came up with the Crime topic, we had reservations. It could either be really great and work really well or it could be a bad idea. There is that fine line with mob and organized crime where it can get really cheesy really quick. We had to use our head by doing research and being smart about it and in the end it worked really well.
Metal Exiles: I think that if another band, like Warrant, did it, it would be terrible but considering you are brutal in your approach anyway then it could come off really well.
Paul: You have to be careful with this topic especially living here in Chicago, you really do not want to name names because their families are still alive and you have to respect that.
Metal Exiles: Well, you do not want to name names.
Paul: That could get ugly in different ways and it is disrespectful, we wanted to be as polite as possible. Growing up here you know people, that is just the way it goes.
Metal Exiles: How did you incorporate the stories into your lyrics?
Paul: I think when you read newspaper articles , you do research and read into the history of things that have happened then you can mix the fantasy and reality together. You read about a subject and you try to place yourself into that story as if you were there and you can write your story from the eyes of a witness. You are making up stories based on newspaper articles.
Metal Exiles: So you are basically reality and basing it in fantasy?
Paul: With some of it yes. A majority of the songs are about a specific subject and there is a lot of fact In the songs other than names. What happened, how it happened, it is all in there but it might be from the perspective of someone watching. There is no way you can know something unless you were there yourself or you asked an actual witness.
Metal Exiles: When you were planning the album what shocked you the most to make you want to write about it?
Paul: I am not sure if something shocked us. I do not think we found anything that we were unaware of but some of this stuff is so powerful. So much of this stuff lent itself to the music. The St Valentine’s Day Massacre was such a well known piece of history, its just one of those things that made sense. It made sense when we started going through the different stories and the different things that happened. Things started to click and it became very easy. We had our outline, we knew what the eight songs were going to be about and it just came together.
Metal Exiles: I was looking at the artwork to go along with the title and the newsprint in the CD, 40 Bodies Found In Lake Michigan. You ever think, wow, how could people get away with that?
Paul: Back then it was easier to get away with things that they did. Police and forensics were so much different than they are now. There were not cameras around like there are now and you cannot get away with doing something like that, not for long at least before getting caught. Police were paid off; they just did not see anything.
Metal Exiles: You incorporated Cranial Hemorrhage into the story line, the Devastation song. Now it is a cover but it fits into the story perfectly. Is that why you chose that particular song by them?
Paul: Honestly, it just worked out that way. We knew the song and we wanted to do it and we also contacted a few of the guys from Devastation (Duane Rasmussen and Erv Brautigam) to come help us out with it as well. After going through the song I knew it fit into the story and instead of putting it at the end as a bonus track cover we decided to put it in the middle of the album as part of the concept. I decided to do the lyrics the same way in the booklet, make the artwork the same as if it was one of our songs.
Metal Exiles: Many bands are issuing digital releases only these days or delaying the issue of a physical CD but you guys have gone all out with your artwork and layout. How easy was it to put together this great booklet of newspaper pages depicting the grisly headlines?
Paul: Some of the newspapers in there were “made” but there are a few that were legit. All I had to do was find the old paper headlines and drop in the lyrics. There was a lot of photo shopping but it was worth it. You come across that stuff fairly easily as most of it is archived at a library or can be found online. I am a strong believer that since most music is going digital now that if you want someone to buy it then you need to give them something to buy. There has to be an extra benefit in the packaging, you have to give them something to look at repeatedly, I want to give them an illustrated book so to speak. I want to build an experience in the visual and the audio as well. I want them to sit down, open the booklet, and follow along with the lyrics while listening to the music. I want there to be a mood set, it has to be the entire thing. I want everybody that has the music to have the full packaging, not just a download of it. It is hard to create an experience from just a download.
Metal Exiles: I know you are proud of your Chicago lore so what is it about Chicago that stands out from other cities?
Paul: It is probably because I have lived here my whole life. I have traveled all over the United States, all over the world to be exact and there is not another city that I have been to that feels like home. New York City and Chicago can be compared but New York is 10 times as big as Chicago is. Chicago is a big city but if you do not want to be in the city within 10 minutes you can be in the suburbs and away from the downtown chaos. It has many great ethnic areas, you have Maxwell St, an amazing Italian area, and a Polish area as well so if you want something different with food you can find it easily.
Metal Exiles: What do you foresee for the next These Are They album, as this one will be hard to top.
Paul: We are heavily in discussion about that record. It will be a little harder as we are trying to come up with another local topic and not repeat ourselves.
Metal Exiles: You are a very talented songwriter so I am sure it will not be that hard. Now, I want to metal fans straight on something and it is something that irritates me. You have the video for Autumn Reflection and it is on YouTube with all of the comments as well. The comments revolve around religion amongst other things and the song is not religious. So, why do you think humans pick and choose the words they want and just make assumptions on that?
Paul: I think it is programming. I think it is unfortunate, especially when it comes from religion, that from birth people are forced to be in a religion, it is not something you do not choose. You are raised the way your parents want you raised and if you are raised to assume that when you hear the word heaven you automatically assume God, it is very hard to break that stigma. It took me a lot of years and personal struggle for my common sense to override my programming. Not a lot of people get that option. They believe what they want to believe and they will look for the things to make themselves feel better about liking it. If you are a religious person then there are things that you need to get out of music and make yourself feel ok about enjoying it. “Gee, he said heaven so it must be good”. I really do feel it is this way, it is about programming and it is a terrible way to live. I refuse to do this to my daughter and if I have more kids, I will not raise them with that kind of forced religion. You can teach morals, manners/right, and wrong without a religious background. Someday when they are old enough if they want to research it and find an answer in something then they can do it but at least they found it on their own and I did not plant it and it in any way. If you look at it, it is a form of mental child abuse.
Metal Exiles: When I talk to some music fans they will say I did not like this song or that one because it was about this or that and you have to say no it wasn’t, you heard what you wanted. It seems as though some people are so closed minded.
Paul: I am somewhat at fault for that because I write in that way as if it could be taken different ways. I like the idea that people can draw their own conclusions.
Metal Exiles: There is nothing wrong with being vague but if you are vague to the wrong groups of people then it doesn’t work.
Paul: That is very true. I have explained myself to people exactly where I come from but they still overlook it and insert their own assumption. “No, you really wrote it about this”. They are so passionate about it they do not want to believe anything else.
With that, I give you a very interesting look at the way Paul Kuhr creates music and his thoughts on religion. You need to become one with his mindset and become a follower of These Are They.
THESE ARE THEY OFFICIAL SITE!
BUT DISPOSING OF BETRAYERS!!
An interview with Paul Kuhr of These Are They and Novembers Doom.
By Jeffrey Easton
Metal Exiles: You have only a two albums out since 2008. Are you surprised at how quickly the band is developing?
Paul Kuhr: It really came together fairly fast and developed quickly. I have never been in a band has moved this fast and written that quickly.
Metal Exiles: What have you found in These Are They that you did not find in Novembers Doom?
Paul: It is a completely different approach. Novembers Doom, from a lyrical side of things, is much more personal and serious in a way. Whereas These Are They, from the beginning, it is more fun. We pick a topic, research the subject and write about it. It is not like I am sitting down writing personal things and emotional lyrics. It is more of a party vibe rather than an emotional drain. That was the goal from the beginning, we said lets get together and have a good time, let’s have fun with the band.
Metal Exiles: Well, with this record, Disposing of Betrayers, it seems that thought had to be put into getting the stories just right.
Paul: Absolutely but it was a different thought process. When you are writing about a known topic it is easier than creating something in your own mind from a personal experience. It is more emotionally draining that way. It came together easier for me than past releases and the band put so much into the record arranging the music and every song had as much hook as possible. It was a lot of work and a lot of thought did go into the record. I do not want to come off sounding like we wrote it in a weekend.
Metal Exiles: I do listen to a lot of death metal and the one thing that puts me off is the amount of blast beats. Your record whereas has a lot of melody in it which to me sucks the listener in. Did you try to set yourself apart from the proverbial pack?
Paul: I will be totally honest with you. My guitar player, Steve Nicholson, formed Novembers Doom with me over twenty years ago and after album #1 Steve grew away from music, went on his own path and did his own thing for over 20 years. He had completely removed himself from the scene and had not heard a new metal band in 15 years. When we first got together, we got in contact and went out for beers one night. I asked him of the bands he has heard of, Amon Amarth, Opeth, and he had no idea what I was talking about. He will still not go out and listen to new bands, he refuses. All of the sound and influence that is coming from the band is him from 20 years ago. There was no effort to sound like anybody else, we just wrote hooky Chicago death metal. This is truly our roots and it may sound like retro but at a time it was Entombed, early Grave, Death.
Metal Exiles: Normal death metal is usually blatant carnage but you have tied this record to the Chicago organized crime scene. What is your fascination with that?
Paul: Chicago is rich in a lot of history and one thing that we want to do is not be a typical death metal band in concept and lyrics. We feel that every topic has been done to death, pardon the pun. The gore or the horror, every band has done it in this genre a million times. We said let’s try and keep everything local if we can and we thought about what is Chicago known for. When we came up with the Crime topic, we had reservations. It could either be really great and work really well or it could be a bad idea. There is that fine line with mob and organized crime where it can get really cheesy really quick. We had to use our head by doing research and being smart about it and in the end it worked really well.
Metal Exiles: I think that if another band, like Warrant, did it, it would be terrible but considering you are brutal in your approach anyway then it could come off really well.
Paul: You have to be careful with this topic especially living here in Chicago, you really do not want to name names because their families are still alive and you have to respect that.
Metal Exiles: Well, you do not want to name names.
Paul: That could get ugly in different ways and it is disrespectful, we wanted to be as polite as possible. Growing up here you know people, that is just the way it goes.
Metal Exiles: How did you incorporate the stories into your lyrics?
Paul: I think when you read newspaper articles , you do research and read into the history of things that have happened then you can mix the fantasy and reality together. You read about a subject and you try to place yourself into that story as if you were there and you can write your story from the eyes of a witness. You are making up stories based on newspaper articles.
Metal Exiles: So you are basically reality and basing it in fantasy?
Paul: With some of it yes. A majority of the songs are about a specific subject and there is a lot of fact In the songs other than names. What happened, how it happened, it is all in there but it might be from the perspective of someone watching. There is no way you can know something unless you were there yourself or you asked an actual witness.
Metal Exiles: When you were planning the album what shocked you the most to make you want to write about it?
Paul: I am not sure if something shocked us. I do not think we found anything that we were unaware of but some of this stuff is so powerful. So much of this stuff lent itself to the music. The St Valentine’s Day Massacre was such a well known piece of history, its just one of those things that made sense. It made sense when we started going through the different stories and the different things that happened. Things started to click and it became very easy. We had our outline, we knew what the eight songs were going to be about and it just came together.
Metal Exiles: I was looking at the artwork to go along with the title and the newsprint in the CD, 40 Bodies Found In Lake Michigan. You ever think, wow, how could people get away with that?
Paul: Back then it was easier to get away with things that they did. Police and forensics were so much different than they are now. There were not cameras around like there are now and you cannot get away with doing something like that, not for long at least before getting caught. Police were paid off; they just did not see anything.
Metal Exiles: You incorporated Cranial Hemorrhage into the story line, the Devastation song. Now it is a cover but it fits into the story perfectly. Is that why you chose that particular song by them?
Paul: Honestly, it just worked out that way. We knew the song and we wanted to do it and we also contacted a few of the guys from Devastation (Duane Rasmussen and Erv Brautigam) to come help us out with it as well. After going through the song I knew it fit into the story and instead of putting it at the end as a bonus track cover we decided to put it in the middle of the album as part of the concept. I decided to do the lyrics the same way in the booklet, make the artwork the same as if it was one of our songs.
Metal Exiles: Many bands are issuing digital releases only these days or delaying the issue of a physical CD but you guys have gone all out with your artwork and layout. How easy was it to put together this great booklet of newspaper pages depicting the grisly headlines?
Paul: Some of the newspapers in there were “made” but there are a few that were legit. All I had to do was find the old paper headlines and drop in the lyrics. There was a lot of photo shopping but it was worth it. You come across that stuff fairly easily as most of it is archived at a library or can be found online. I am a strong believer that since most music is going digital now that if you want someone to buy it then you need to give them something to buy. There has to be an extra benefit in the packaging, you have to give them something to look at repeatedly, I want to give them an illustrated book so to speak. I want to build an experience in the visual and the audio as well. I want them to sit down, open the booklet, and follow along with the lyrics while listening to the music. I want there to be a mood set, it has to be the entire thing. I want everybody that has the music to have the full packaging, not just a download of it. It is hard to create an experience from just a download.
Metal Exiles: I know you are proud of your Chicago lore so what is it about Chicago that stands out from other cities?
Paul: It is probably because I have lived here my whole life. I have traveled all over the United States, all over the world to be exact and there is not another city that I have been to that feels like home. New York City and Chicago can be compared but New York is 10 times as big as Chicago is. Chicago is a big city but if you do not want to be in the city within 10 minutes you can be in the suburbs and away from the downtown chaos. It has many great ethnic areas, you have Maxwell St, an amazing Italian area, and a Polish area as well so if you want something different with food you can find it easily.
Metal Exiles: What do you foresee for the next These Are They album, as this one will be hard to top.
Paul: We are heavily in discussion about that record. It will be a little harder as we are trying to come up with another local topic and not repeat ourselves.
Metal Exiles: You are a very talented songwriter so I am sure it will not be that hard. Now, I want to metal fans straight on something and it is something that irritates me. You have the video for Autumn Reflection and it is on YouTube with all of the comments as well. The comments revolve around religion amongst other things and the song is not religious. So, why do you think humans pick and choose the words they want and just make assumptions on that?
Paul: I think it is programming. I think it is unfortunate, especially when it comes from religion, that from birth people are forced to be in a religion, it is not something you do not choose. You are raised the way your parents want you raised and if you are raised to assume that when you hear the word heaven you automatically assume God, it is very hard to break that stigma. It took me a lot of years and personal struggle for my common sense to override my programming. Not a lot of people get that option. They believe what they want to believe and they will look for the things to make themselves feel better about liking it. If you are a religious person then there are things that you need to get out of music and make yourself feel ok about enjoying it. “Gee, he said heaven so it must be good”. I really do feel it is this way, it is about programming and it is a terrible way to live. I refuse to do this to my daughter and if I have more kids, I will not raise them with that kind of forced religion. You can teach morals, manners/right, and wrong without a religious background. Someday when they are old enough if they want to research it and find an answer in something then they can do it but at least they found it on their own and I did not plant it and it in any way. If you look at it, it is a form of mental child abuse.
Metal Exiles: When I talk to some music fans they will say I did not like this song or that one because it was about this or that and you have to say no it wasn’t, you heard what you wanted. It seems as though some people are so closed minded.
Paul: I am somewhat at fault for that because I write in that way as if it could be taken different ways. I like the idea that people can draw their own conclusions.
Metal Exiles: There is nothing wrong with being vague but if you are vague to the wrong groups of people then it doesn’t work.
Paul: That is very true. I have explained myself to people exactly where I come from but they still overlook it and insert their own assumption. “No, you really wrote it about this”. They are so passionate about it they do not want to believe anything else.
With that, I give you a very interesting look at the way Paul Kuhr creates music and his thoughts on religion. You need to become one with his mindset and become a follower of These Are They.
THESE ARE THEY OFFICIAL SITE!
BUT DISPOSING OF BETRAYERS!!
