Plagues of Babylon is the latest release from the great Iced Earth, and it is breath taking! The band has recently completed a major European tour supporting their brothers-in-arms, Volbeat, and they are gearing up for another trek of world domination in support of this new record. The band has never been busier or more on fire than they are now, and Metal Exiles was fortunate enough to spend a few minutes with Iced Earth’s main creative force, Jon Schaffer, to talk about the new album and get an inside scoop into some of the inner workings of the band.
An interview with Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth
By John Knowles
Metal Exiles: So the new album is called Plagues of Babylon. It is completely done, and sounds great. What are some of your thoughts on the finished record, and are there any tracks that really stand out for you?
Jon Schaffer: The album came out really strong, the songwriting is great, the performances are really great. This is the first album I produced on my own for Iced Earth. The challenges that I went through, I mean it was recorded in Germany with four different engineers. It presented some challenges from working in three different rooms as well. It was a test of the metal, believe me, and I think that the end result came out really strong. As for highlights, I’d say there are several highlights on the album for me. Maybe the biggest being the track “Highwayman.” My best friends in the industry all make an appearance on this album, from Hansi of Blind Guardian, Russell from Symphony X/Adrenaline Mob, Michael from Volbeat. With “Highwayman” it’s a special thing with that song, I’ve wanted to do it for about three years now, and I finally was able to make it a reality. All of our schedules lined up so we could make it happen. And I think it says everything that needs to be said about the brotherhood, and our commitment to the way of life that we’ve chosen, and it’s a big deal, man, it’s a really big deal. That’s one of the highlights, but there’s a lot of highlights through the album.
Metal Exiles: I love that you covered “Highwayman,” one of my favorite songs of all time. How did you decide who would sing each part?
Jon Schaffer: I wanted to do Willie’s part because those lyrics fit me, and I wanted Russell to do Kris Kristofferson’s parts because those lyrics fit him. Michael opted to do Johnny Cash’s part – that’s a given, that came about automatically. And I really felt like Stu’s voice would fit the Waylon part. We didn’t record it together, you know, Russell did his stuff in Jersey and Michael did his in Denmark and Stu and I worked in Germany, but with us I was the first to do my part, and I did it really low and kind of in a lower octave, really calm like Willie Nelson, and I just thought man, this didn’t have the right energy. So I went in the next day and I started raging it out. And Stu did his and I thought man, this is fucking killer. I mean, he started out low too, and he told me that he needed to go higher, and I agreed and said you’ve got to go a third up the scale and see where that leads, and he just rattled it off and it was amazing, the first take was just killer, but Stu was like, “Let me do it again!” He did three takes, and I had to say, we’re done, we got it in the first take, all three of these are amazing, let’s just leave it alone dude, it’s perfect. So we had our parts and I think the next was Russell’s that I received a couple of days later, and I was literally jumping up and down in the studio. A couple of days after that I got Michael’s, and I thought, “Oh my God, this is just so fucking cool”, you know? When I got Michael’s part I knew this was really gonna happen, because I wouldn’t have released it without his part, or even Russell’s part. So it may have just been that we had the music and it would stay in the can until those guys could get around to it. But fortunately they made it happen between their busy schedules, and we got it done, and now it’s there in rock history.
Metal Exiles: That’s really cool that you ended up producing the album yourself. Was it a challenge to record an Iced Earth record without Jim Morris, and do you think you’ll work with him again on future albums or was this more to do with your tour schedule?
Jon Schaffer: Well this was definitely due to my tour schedule, I mean I love Jim to death man, he’s my daughter’s godfather, he’s family. So it was difficult for both of us. I was just talking to him on the phone yesterday and he said it was crazy thinking he couldn’t be over there with us while we were tracking everything and I said I believe it because I kept sending him texts saying, “Dude, I miss you” (laughs), because, you know we always have so much fun. So, yeah I’m sure Jim and I will work together again, but as far as it being the next record, I don’t know because Iced Earth is so active these days, we literally have to do it around our schedules for touring, and we had these ten or twelve festivals this past summer, and it would have required me flying back and forth on weekends from Europe to Florida to do it, and that really is not an option for me. I did that during Dystopia and I was jet-lagged as fuck, all summer. I told my manager that I would not be doing this again. I would literally leave on Thursday night, leave Tampa, show up in Europe Friday, play Friday, play Saturday. Fly home either Sunday or Monday, and if I flew home Sunday I’d be back in the studio at 10:00am on Monday. And it happened weeks in a row. It was way too much coffee consumption and jet-lagging. It’s different for the other guys because they just show up and do their parts, but I’ve got to be there for the entire process. Its one of those things that I learned a lesson from, and that’s the main reason that we did it all over in Europe this time. And the next time maybe we’ll do it in Europe, maybe we’ll do it here...it’s too early to tell.
Metal Exiles: You have a few notable guest vocalists on this new album, as you have mentioned. I want to ask you about Hansi Kürsch (Blind Guardian). I know you both have said on multiple occasions how difficult it is to work together so how did the opportunity come up to have him in the studio?
Jon Schaffer: Well the thing of it is, because we were in Germany, and literally like an hour and a half from Hansi’s house it was pretty easy. That’s different than doing something like Demons & Wizards where you have to get together, write songs, and I mean, Hansi came into the studio for one day. He got there around 2:00 in the afternoon, and he left at I think 10 or 11 that night. That’s a whole different thing, coming in and singing parts that are already written, than getting together and writing songs...that’s something that can take a couple months. Then you have to produce the record, and go out on tour and for both of us to do a Demons & Wizards cycle we would both need a year of time to make that a reality and that’s just not a reality right now because Iced Earth is too busy, Blind Guardian is too busy. So I talked to Hansi while we were in Germany doing pre-production for the tracking and that was also pretty close to his house and he came to visit us and I played the song, “Among the Living Dead” for him and I told him I would love for you to do a verse in this song. He agreed, and said it would be cool, and of course he’d be up for that. And then a little bit later I mentioned to him that normally when I’m working in Indiana or Florida I have a group of backing vocalists that I can call upon to sing choir parts on the album, on the choruses. And being in Germany I was a stranger in a strange land, so I called Hansi and he said he’d be happy to help out and that he had a friend he could bring along too. So, that’s how that worked out.
Metal Exiles: Any chance a new Demons & Wizards will happen in the future?
Jon Schaffer: Oh yeah. No doubt it will happen, it’s just a question of when, man. Hansi’s my brother, and we make really cool music together. Like I said, my band is working so hard, and everyone is so dedicated, I can’t just say, “Hey guys, everything is going so great, but let’s stop for a year so I can go make a Demon’s album.” And you know, I could make good money doing a Demons & Wizards album – it’s not about the money, none of this is about the money.
Metal Exiles: You also have Michael Poulsen of Volbeat on the album! Do you have a similar project planned with him as well?
Jon Schaffer: Yeah we do. We want to work together some day as well, and we actually already have plans, but again, his schedules insane also. On tour we did some riffing and shit, showing each other some parts, and ideas, just discussing everything. And I am flying to Copenhagen for a couple days before the next European tour starts. So we’ll see what happens, but it’s definitely something that’s going to take some time and it’s definitely going to take time for our schedules to sort of line-up and free up. But the difference is that this would be Michael and I doing musical arrangements together, which is going to make it faster. It’s different than if I’m doing all of the composition and the music parts and sending it to Hansi to write melodies, and lyrical cadences, and lyrics themselves, I mean that’s one thing, but the music is the hardest part. It is the thing that takes the longest, it is the thing that takes the most time, you know. So when I have a partner in that, like Michael, I think it’s going to go pretty quickly when it happens and we can actually focus on it. So we’ll see. It is in the works. There’s too much chemistry between him and I not to pursue this. It would be foolish not to.
Metal Exiles: You’ve clearly formed a tight camaraderie with both of these guys over the years. What is it about those bands – Blind Guardian and Volbeat – that have led to so much respect and support from Iced Earth?
Jon Schaffer: Yeah, I don’t know man. It’s a rare thing to have that kind of chemistry with bands. You’re always going to tour with bands and make friends with a couple of the guys on the road, but for Blind Guardian, Iced Earth is obviously a completely different line-up than the first time we toured with the exception being myself. But I’ve been friends with those guys forever...all of them. And Hansi and I especially got super close and super tight, and have been for years and years and it’s just one of those things that happens once in a while. We had a great time with Symphony X, and Stu had previously toured with Russell Allen and those guys. I had met those guys one other time before when Tim [Owens] and I were on a promotional tour – I think on The Glorious Burden album – when we were over in Paris and they were playing, and I met them briefly. But once we toured together Stu told me, he said, “Dude, you’re gonna love Russell man, you guys were fuckin made for each other.” And as soon as we started hanging out, a couple of shows into it there was just an obvious chemistry and we hung out together all the time, and drank a lot of rum and a lot of whiskey together, and we realized we are both just old fuckin pirates – we’re in this shit to win it. And with Volbeat, all of the band member’s crew, their core crew, and our crew get along so well. It’s like a whole family type of vibe. I don’t know what it is, its just one of those things that happens, man. Sometimes you go on tour with bands and you don’t get along at all. Sometimes you get along okay, but it’s not that kind of chemistry that says, you guys are going to be my friends for the rest of my life, and with Blind Guardian and Volbeat that’s certainly the case.
Metal Exiles: The album really has a much darker tone overall than what I’ve heard from you guys in years, and I think you’ve even commented on this. Can you explain the motivation behind this musical direction?
Jon Schaffer: Well, the zombie apocalypse theme within the “Something Wicked” universe is really a dark subject. It’s taking the zombie apocalypse, which is a subject that can be really corny, because there is a lot of shitty zombie movies I think, but this takes it to another level of realism and it’s fucking evil. So there’s real world stuff, there’s horror, there’s science fiction. It’s kind of got all of the elements from the “Something Wicked” universe in there. First Stu and I were talking about how we thought it would be cool to do a song based on zombies, because we’re all in to watching The Walking Dead and stuff. Stu’s a zombie movie freak, it’s his favorite horror genre. But then my wheels started really turning and I thought we could really take this and come up with an actual story. I didn’t have a desire to make it a full album concept or anything, I didn’t feel that was necessary, I felt like we could tell the story within four to six songs, and it turns out we were able to do just that. And we already had a few individual tracks that weren’t related, but we’re really strong. I thought this was a cool way to do something somewhat similar to what Rush did with 2112, where you have a concept on one side, and individual tracks on the other, and that’s really the direction that I went with it. Plus I knew that we we’re going to do “Highwayman,” or we were at least going to get the music done – whether I could get Russell and Michael to get their vocals done in time, that was another thing – but I wanted to get it done and in the can so that someday when they could do it we could get it out there. And obviously that doesn’t fit anywhere in the zombie apocalypse. So I think it creates some cool things for the fans to have this really heavy, dark story and then have these songs that are also really heavy and more of an emotional roller coaster ride that has a lot of different vibes and atmospheres happening on the record. For me, that’s always been an important thing in Iced Earth compositions: To send people on a journey.
Metal Exiles: So there are six tracks that further the “Something Wicked” saga as you mentioned. You also have a couple on Dystopia. Do you think this storyline is something you will like to continually revisit on albums to come?
Jon Schaffer: I mean it’s possible, but it’s not planned...there is no end, and that’s the thing. There is no end to the “Something Wicked” story, or the “Something Wicked” universe, it could go on and on and on. You can take basically any era of human history and apply it to the “Something Wicked” framework and you have a really cool, potential story to create. You can also come up with scenarios that haven’t happened, like future scenarios such as the zombie apocalypse. I mean, maybe we are living like a bunch of zombies, maybe the television is the opiate of the masses that keeps people stupid and compliant, I don’t know – I start feeling that way sometimes. So revisiting the storyline is something that could happen, it may not happen for two or three records, but it may come back. I mean, its not over, I can tell you that, because if I get inspired by something and say hey, the “Something Wicked” framework would be badass on this...then I’ll do it. If it’s about a battle, or anything! Anything that’s happened in history or could happen, it’s all up for grabs. It’s just a fun way to be creative.
Metal Exiles: With the Something Wicked storyline I recall in past interviews some things you shared regarding The Crucible of Man in particular, and how it was not quite released in its full form – missing some interludes and stuff – and you had mentioned plans to have Matt [Barlow] re-record Framing Armageddon and release both as a set. There was also some talk of how both albums would be supported on tour, along with comics, and various other things. What are your thoughts looking back on the Something Wicked albums, and do you ever plan to revisit some of those plans I have just mentioned?
Jon Schaffer: Well, at the time we did have intentions of doing something like that, but then SPV went into insolvency and had serious financial problems. Doing something like that is not cheap. It all costs money, and takes a lot of time and effort. It’s very unlikely that’ll happen. And I don’t know that in this day and age if there’s really a demand for something like that. Now, the comic book stuff, that’s definitely a possibility later. But as far as redoing any of those records, you know with Stu for instance, I just don’t think it serves anyone to go in and do work like that, to go in and re-track everything and do the remix and remastering...I don’t think it’s going to be worth the effort – the time it will take and the money it will cost. But, we’ll see. I mean, I never say never. But right now the bands on fire, and we’re energized and we’re more focused on the future than anything in the past. And looking back today, Framing Armageddon is way stronger than Crucible. Crucible’s got some really cool moments, but it was also a very difficult time for me, I had lost three family members during the period of the songwriting for those records and by the time I was really focusing on arrangements and everything for Crucible I had lost my sister – I lost my brother, father, and sister all in one year, and I was just not myself. I mean I could really not make good decisions at that time, it was a really tough time. I can hear that on it. Like I said, Crucible’s got some really cool moments on it overall, but its just not focused and I think there’s some arrangements decisions that I would never make normally had I been 100% there. So having said that, that also creates more work, because if I ever wanted to dig back in to that I’m not going to be able to live with the arrangements the way they were. So that mean’s I’m going to have to go back in and re-record parts, not just vocals. Vocals are pretty easy actually. But to go back in and redo drums, and guitar, and bass, and lead guitar, and everything...it would get pretty costly and time consuming and I think there are smarter ways to spend time and money these days.
Metal Exiles: I noticed Stu’s vocal approach on the album is a bit different from Dystopia – a few less screams, and a notably more melodic approach to the soft, clean parts like on “Cthulhu” – was that due in part to your coaching, or his gained experience from the road?
Jon Schaffer: Well of course all of Iced Earth’s vocals has to do with the coaching and the production and things we do together, but I think it’s the songs. The songs always tell you what the vocals should do. I mean that’s normal, man. They always come first, it’s not like the vocal melody or the lyrics get written before the cadences, I mean the music tells you what needs to happen and you just have to follow that. So maybe there’s not as much high stuff on this album as there could be, or maybe would be on the next one, but this is the way the songs spoke to us. I think the thing you can’t do in the writing process is be too contrived. You have to let things happen in a natural way that stays honest and stays true, and whether everyone’s going to understand it and get it is something totally different, but if you try to do everything by a specific formula or you try to contrive everything and make grand plans early on in the writing process...I mean, okay production is one thing, but if you’re talking about songwriting and creating songs that’s a whole different animal, man. And in my experience I like to let happen what feels natural and that starts from the very first guitar riffs that inspire you to want to build a song. And the arrangement of the song is crucial, and those things will always speak to you and tell you what the vocal needs to be. I mean obviously you don’t go into a verse part like “If I Could See You” and have a raging “Rob Halford” screaming part...that makes no sense, you know what I mean? So the music tells you what needs to happen. Always has, always will.
Metal Exiles: It seems you guys have been on the road since Dystopia! And now your gearing up for another World tour. How do you guys manage to have time for yourselves and family, and do you expect any sort of extended break at some point in the near future?
Jon Schaffer: It’s difficult man, I mean right now. A week ago we just wrapped up a tour with Volbeat, and we did festivals before that and we recorded the album this summer. The DVD [Live in Ancient Kourion] came out in spring of this year. But what we have to do, when we have these times like right now we have a couple weeks for Christmas time and we have to spend good quality time with our families. Some of us just have wives, some of us have kids and ex-wives and you have to try to make arrangements, if you can get your kids to come out for a weekend on tour, great! If not, thank God for Skype. There’s not much else that you can do. When you choose this lifestyle it’s not easy, man. Most people can’t handle it, you know? But the four of us – Luke, Troy, Stu, and I – are totally committed to this lifestyle. And we’ll just have to see what kind of toll it takes in the end, I mean it always does take a toll. So, it’s hard but you just make the best of the situation. And I know for me, I’m taking off September next year [2014]. I don’t want to hear the words “Iced Earth” for one month. Because the thing is, man for me it never stops. Like right now I’m doing press and I should be spending time with my daughter. But I’m doing press. I’ve got two days of it, and I’ve got to work a day in the studio next week and when I first got here I had three intense days with my management over the release while the other guys when they go home they go home. They do go and focus on the songs we’re doing in the set of the world tour, while I have to do that also and try to be a family man and still maintain Iced Earth’s business. So, it never stops for me. And the guys realize that, especially when they saw what I go through in a production, because we were all housed in the same place. I mean they know I work all the time, but I think it changed their perspective a little bit. Its not just about playing the guitar I mean the guitar for me is maybe 5 or 10% of my time. Everything else that makes Iced Earth operate is what I have to deal with on a daily basis. So I’m basically getting to the point where I have to take a break because I’ve been doing this for so long my mind and body are telling me “Don’t start hating this thing again.” So we have this plan, and we’re all taking off September but I’m going to be really disconnected. I’m not going to have a phone or a computer for a month and I do not want to hear the words “Iced Earth.” And then I’ll be fully charged and ready to go. I might go scuba diving for a month.
Metal Exiles: You’ve been fighting the good fight for Metal since around 1986. And with Dystopia you began hitting the road and promoting like never before. What goals do you still have for the band, and where do you hope to take Iced Earth in the coming years?
Jon Schaffer: I want to take it to the next level; I mean Iced Earth has been forever kind of trapped as a mid-level band. And I think we can take it further. I don’t have any delusions that we’ll ever be able to take it to Metallica status or Iron Maiden status, though in our fan’s minds we’re already that. I just think we can reach more people, and when you consider that Iced Earth has only opened for four bands in the entire band’s history I think it’s pretty amazing that we have the status that we have. And also considering that after the Horror Show touring cycle until Dystopia very little touring was done at all. And we still maintained a very strong status, but you have to tour in this business, it’s the only way, especially today with all of the internet stuff going on and retail stores closing – if you want your band to stay relevant you gotta be out there playing. And you gotta have the right line-up of guys that are willing to do that and see the big picture and we’re trying to form our own future and become completely independent so that’s what we’re working towards and we have very specific goals set, we have timelines set, we plan things a few years in advance. Like this Volbeat tour was planned almost two years ago. They invited us out to dinner while we were in Copenhagen and invited us out on this tour and we said, “hell yes, we would love to do it.” So a lot of goals get set and you go towards achieving them.
Metal Exiles: Any last comments on the new album or the band that you would like leave with the readers?
Jon Schaffer: I appreciate the support, and we’ll be out there. We have a big full tour coming and we’ll see you guys out there. I just want to say thanks very much for the support, and check out the new record, it’s fucking heavy!
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An interview with Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth
By John Knowles
Metal Exiles: So the new album is called Plagues of Babylon. It is completely done, and sounds great. What are some of your thoughts on the finished record, and are there any tracks that really stand out for you?
Jon Schaffer: The album came out really strong, the songwriting is great, the performances are really great. This is the first album I produced on my own for Iced Earth. The challenges that I went through, I mean it was recorded in Germany with four different engineers. It presented some challenges from working in three different rooms as well. It was a test of the metal, believe me, and I think that the end result came out really strong. As for highlights, I’d say there are several highlights on the album for me. Maybe the biggest being the track “Highwayman.” My best friends in the industry all make an appearance on this album, from Hansi of Blind Guardian, Russell from Symphony X/Adrenaline Mob, Michael from Volbeat. With “Highwayman” it’s a special thing with that song, I’ve wanted to do it for about three years now, and I finally was able to make it a reality. All of our schedules lined up so we could make it happen. And I think it says everything that needs to be said about the brotherhood, and our commitment to the way of life that we’ve chosen, and it’s a big deal, man, it’s a really big deal. That’s one of the highlights, but there’s a lot of highlights through the album.
Metal Exiles: I love that you covered “Highwayman,” one of my favorite songs of all time. How did you decide who would sing each part?
Jon Schaffer: I wanted to do Willie’s part because those lyrics fit me, and I wanted Russell to do Kris Kristofferson’s parts because those lyrics fit him. Michael opted to do Johnny Cash’s part – that’s a given, that came about automatically. And I really felt like Stu’s voice would fit the Waylon part. We didn’t record it together, you know, Russell did his stuff in Jersey and Michael did his in Denmark and Stu and I worked in Germany, but with us I was the first to do my part, and I did it really low and kind of in a lower octave, really calm like Willie Nelson, and I just thought man, this didn’t have the right energy. So I went in the next day and I started raging it out. And Stu did his and I thought man, this is fucking killer. I mean, he started out low too, and he told me that he needed to go higher, and I agreed and said you’ve got to go a third up the scale and see where that leads, and he just rattled it off and it was amazing, the first take was just killer, but Stu was like, “Let me do it again!” He did three takes, and I had to say, we’re done, we got it in the first take, all three of these are amazing, let’s just leave it alone dude, it’s perfect. So we had our parts and I think the next was Russell’s that I received a couple of days later, and I was literally jumping up and down in the studio. A couple of days after that I got Michael’s, and I thought, “Oh my God, this is just so fucking cool”, you know? When I got Michael’s part I knew this was really gonna happen, because I wouldn’t have released it without his part, or even Russell’s part. So it may have just been that we had the music and it would stay in the can until those guys could get around to it. But fortunately they made it happen between their busy schedules, and we got it done, and now it’s there in rock history.
Metal Exiles: That’s really cool that you ended up producing the album yourself. Was it a challenge to record an Iced Earth record without Jim Morris, and do you think you’ll work with him again on future albums or was this more to do with your tour schedule?
Jon Schaffer: Well this was definitely due to my tour schedule, I mean I love Jim to death man, he’s my daughter’s godfather, he’s family. So it was difficult for both of us. I was just talking to him on the phone yesterday and he said it was crazy thinking he couldn’t be over there with us while we were tracking everything and I said I believe it because I kept sending him texts saying, “Dude, I miss you” (laughs), because, you know we always have so much fun. So, yeah I’m sure Jim and I will work together again, but as far as it being the next record, I don’t know because Iced Earth is so active these days, we literally have to do it around our schedules for touring, and we had these ten or twelve festivals this past summer, and it would have required me flying back and forth on weekends from Europe to Florida to do it, and that really is not an option for me. I did that during Dystopia and I was jet-lagged as fuck, all summer. I told my manager that I would not be doing this again. I would literally leave on Thursday night, leave Tampa, show up in Europe Friday, play Friday, play Saturday. Fly home either Sunday or Monday, and if I flew home Sunday I’d be back in the studio at 10:00am on Monday. And it happened weeks in a row. It was way too much coffee consumption and jet-lagging. It’s different for the other guys because they just show up and do their parts, but I’ve got to be there for the entire process. Its one of those things that I learned a lesson from, and that’s the main reason that we did it all over in Europe this time. And the next time maybe we’ll do it in Europe, maybe we’ll do it here...it’s too early to tell.
Metal Exiles: You have a few notable guest vocalists on this new album, as you have mentioned. I want to ask you about Hansi Kürsch (Blind Guardian). I know you both have said on multiple occasions how difficult it is to work together so how did the opportunity come up to have him in the studio?
Jon Schaffer: Well the thing of it is, because we were in Germany, and literally like an hour and a half from Hansi’s house it was pretty easy. That’s different than doing something like Demons & Wizards where you have to get together, write songs, and I mean, Hansi came into the studio for one day. He got there around 2:00 in the afternoon, and he left at I think 10 or 11 that night. That’s a whole different thing, coming in and singing parts that are already written, than getting together and writing songs...that’s something that can take a couple months. Then you have to produce the record, and go out on tour and for both of us to do a Demons & Wizards cycle we would both need a year of time to make that a reality and that’s just not a reality right now because Iced Earth is too busy, Blind Guardian is too busy. So I talked to Hansi while we were in Germany doing pre-production for the tracking and that was also pretty close to his house and he came to visit us and I played the song, “Among the Living Dead” for him and I told him I would love for you to do a verse in this song. He agreed, and said it would be cool, and of course he’d be up for that. And then a little bit later I mentioned to him that normally when I’m working in Indiana or Florida I have a group of backing vocalists that I can call upon to sing choir parts on the album, on the choruses. And being in Germany I was a stranger in a strange land, so I called Hansi and he said he’d be happy to help out and that he had a friend he could bring along too. So, that’s how that worked out.
Metal Exiles: Any chance a new Demons & Wizards will happen in the future?
Jon Schaffer: Oh yeah. No doubt it will happen, it’s just a question of when, man. Hansi’s my brother, and we make really cool music together. Like I said, my band is working so hard, and everyone is so dedicated, I can’t just say, “Hey guys, everything is going so great, but let’s stop for a year so I can go make a Demon’s album.” And you know, I could make good money doing a Demons & Wizards album – it’s not about the money, none of this is about the money.
Metal Exiles: You also have Michael Poulsen of Volbeat on the album! Do you have a similar project planned with him as well?
Jon Schaffer: Yeah we do. We want to work together some day as well, and we actually already have plans, but again, his schedules insane also. On tour we did some riffing and shit, showing each other some parts, and ideas, just discussing everything. And I am flying to Copenhagen for a couple days before the next European tour starts. So we’ll see what happens, but it’s definitely something that’s going to take some time and it’s definitely going to take time for our schedules to sort of line-up and free up. But the difference is that this would be Michael and I doing musical arrangements together, which is going to make it faster. It’s different than if I’m doing all of the composition and the music parts and sending it to Hansi to write melodies, and lyrical cadences, and lyrics themselves, I mean that’s one thing, but the music is the hardest part. It is the thing that takes the longest, it is the thing that takes the most time, you know. So when I have a partner in that, like Michael, I think it’s going to go pretty quickly when it happens and we can actually focus on it. So we’ll see. It is in the works. There’s too much chemistry between him and I not to pursue this. It would be foolish not to.
Metal Exiles: You’ve clearly formed a tight camaraderie with both of these guys over the years. What is it about those bands – Blind Guardian and Volbeat – that have led to so much respect and support from Iced Earth?
Jon Schaffer: Yeah, I don’t know man. It’s a rare thing to have that kind of chemistry with bands. You’re always going to tour with bands and make friends with a couple of the guys on the road, but for Blind Guardian, Iced Earth is obviously a completely different line-up than the first time we toured with the exception being myself. But I’ve been friends with those guys forever...all of them. And Hansi and I especially got super close and super tight, and have been for years and years and it’s just one of those things that happens once in a while. We had a great time with Symphony X, and Stu had previously toured with Russell Allen and those guys. I had met those guys one other time before when Tim [Owens] and I were on a promotional tour – I think on The Glorious Burden album – when we were over in Paris and they were playing, and I met them briefly. But once we toured together Stu told me, he said, “Dude, you’re gonna love Russell man, you guys were fuckin made for each other.” And as soon as we started hanging out, a couple of shows into it there was just an obvious chemistry and we hung out together all the time, and drank a lot of rum and a lot of whiskey together, and we realized we are both just old fuckin pirates – we’re in this shit to win it. And with Volbeat, all of the band member’s crew, their core crew, and our crew get along so well. It’s like a whole family type of vibe. I don’t know what it is, its just one of those things that happens, man. Sometimes you go on tour with bands and you don’t get along at all. Sometimes you get along okay, but it’s not that kind of chemistry that says, you guys are going to be my friends for the rest of my life, and with Blind Guardian and Volbeat that’s certainly the case.
Metal Exiles: The album really has a much darker tone overall than what I’ve heard from you guys in years, and I think you’ve even commented on this. Can you explain the motivation behind this musical direction?
Jon Schaffer: Well, the zombie apocalypse theme within the “Something Wicked” universe is really a dark subject. It’s taking the zombie apocalypse, which is a subject that can be really corny, because there is a lot of shitty zombie movies I think, but this takes it to another level of realism and it’s fucking evil. So there’s real world stuff, there’s horror, there’s science fiction. It’s kind of got all of the elements from the “Something Wicked” universe in there. First Stu and I were talking about how we thought it would be cool to do a song based on zombies, because we’re all in to watching The Walking Dead and stuff. Stu’s a zombie movie freak, it’s his favorite horror genre. But then my wheels started really turning and I thought we could really take this and come up with an actual story. I didn’t have a desire to make it a full album concept or anything, I didn’t feel that was necessary, I felt like we could tell the story within four to six songs, and it turns out we were able to do just that. And we already had a few individual tracks that weren’t related, but we’re really strong. I thought this was a cool way to do something somewhat similar to what Rush did with 2112, where you have a concept on one side, and individual tracks on the other, and that’s really the direction that I went with it. Plus I knew that we we’re going to do “Highwayman,” or we were at least going to get the music done – whether I could get Russell and Michael to get their vocals done in time, that was another thing – but I wanted to get it done and in the can so that someday when they could do it we could get it out there. And obviously that doesn’t fit anywhere in the zombie apocalypse. So I think it creates some cool things for the fans to have this really heavy, dark story and then have these songs that are also really heavy and more of an emotional roller coaster ride that has a lot of different vibes and atmospheres happening on the record. For me, that’s always been an important thing in Iced Earth compositions: To send people on a journey.
Metal Exiles: So there are six tracks that further the “Something Wicked” saga as you mentioned. You also have a couple on Dystopia. Do you think this storyline is something you will like to continually revisit on albums to come?
Jon Schaffer: I mean it’s possible, but it’s not planned...there is no end, and that’s the thing. There is no end to the “Something Wicked” story, or the “Something Wicked” universe, it could go on and on and on. You can take basically any era of human history and apply it to the “Something Wicked” framework and you have a really cool, potential story to create. You can also come up with scenarios that haven’t happened, like future scenarios such as the zombie apocalypse. I mean, maybe we are living like a bunch of zombies, maybe the television is the opiate of the masses that keeps people stupid and compliant, I don’t know – I start feeling that way sometimes. So revisiting the storyline is something that could happen, it may not happen for two or three records, but it may come back. I mean, its not over, I can tell you that, because if I get inspired by something and say hey, the “Something Wicked” framework would be badass on this...then I’ll do it. If it’s about a battle, or anything! Anything that’s happened in history or could happen, it’s all up for grabs. It’s just a fun way to be creative.
Metal Exiles: With the Something Wicked storyline I recall in past interviews some things you shared regarding The Crucible of Man in particular, and how it was not quite released in its full form – missing some interludes and stuff – and you had mentioned plans to have Matt [Barlow] re-record Framing Armageddon and release both as a set. There was also some talk of how both albums would be supported on tour, along with comics, and various other things. What are your thoughts looking back on the Something Wicked albums, and do you ever plan to revisit some of those plans I have just mentioned?
Jon Schaffer: Well, at the time we did have intentions of doing something like that, but then SPV went into insolvency and had serious financial problems. Doing something like that is not cheap. It all costs money, and takes a lot of time and effort. It’s very unlikely that’ll happen. And I don’t know that in this day and age if there’s really a demand for something like that. Now, the comic book stuff, that’s definitely a possibility later. But as far as redoing any of those records, you know with Stu for instance, I just don’t think it serves anyone to go in and do work like that, to go in and re-track everything and do the remix and remastering...I don’t think it’s going to be worth the effort – the time it will take and the money it will cost. But, we’ll see. I mean, I never say never. But right now the bands on fire, and we’re energized and we’re more focused on the future than anything in the past. And looking back today, Framing Armageddon is way stronger than Crucible. Crucible’s got some really cool moments, but it was also a very difficult time for me, I had lost three family members during the period of the songwriting for those records and by the time I was really focusing on arrangements and everything for Crucible I had lost my sister – I lost my brother, father, and sister all in one year, and I was just not myself. I mean I could really not make good decisions at that time, it was a really tough time. I can hear that on it. Like I said, Crucible’s got some really cool moments on it overall, but its just not focused and I think there’s some arrangements decisions that I would never make normally had I been 100% there. So having said that, that also creates more work, because if I ever wanted to dig back in to that I’m not going to be able to live with the arrangements the way they were. So that mean’s I’m going to have to go back in and re-record parts, not just vocals. Vocals are pretty easy actually. But to go back in and redo drums, and guitar, and bass, and lead guitar, and everything...it would get pretty costly and time consuming and I think there are smarter ways to spend time and money these days.
Metal Exiles: I noticed Stu’s vocal approach on the album is a bit different from Dystopia – a few less screams, and a notably more melodic approach to the soft, clean parts like on “Cthulhu” – was that due in part to your coaching, or his gained experience from the road?
Jon Schaffer: Well of course all of Iced Earth’s vocals has to do with the coaching and the production and things we do together, but I think it’s the songs. The songs always tell you what the vocals should do. I mean that’s normal, man. They always come first, it’s not like the vocal melody or the lyrics get written before the cadences, I mean the music tells you what needs to happen and you just have to follow that. So maybe there’s not as much high stuff on this album as there could be, or maybe would be on the next one, but this is the way the songs spoke to us. I think the thing you can’t do in the writing process is be too contrived. You have to let things happen in a natural way that stays honest and stays true, and whether everyone’s going to understand it and get it is something totally different, but if you try to do everything by a specific formula or you try to contrive everything and make grand plans early on in the writing process...I mean, okay production is one thing, but if you’re talking about songwriting and creating songs that’s a whole different animal, man. And in my experience I like to let happen what feels natural and that starts from the very first guitar riffs that inspire you to want to build a song. And the arrangement of the song is crucial, and those things will always speak to you and tell you what the vocal needs to be. I mean obviously you don’t go into a verse part like “If I Could See You” and have a raging “Rob Halford” screaming part...that makes no sense, you know what I mean? So the music tells you what needs to happen. Always has, always will.
Metal Exiles: It seems you guys have been on the road since Dystopia! And now your gearing up for another World tour. How do you guys manage to have time for yourselves and family, and do you expect any sort of extended break at some point in the near future?
Jon Schaffer: It’s difficult man, I mean right now. A week ago we just wrapped up a tour with Volbeat, and we did festivals before that and we recorded the album this summer. The DVD [Live in Ancient Kourion] came out in spring of this year. But what we have to do, when we have these times like right now we have a couple weeks for Christmas time and we have to spend good quality time with our families. Some of us just have wives, some of us have kids and ex-wives and you have to try to make arrangements, if you can get your kids to come out for a weekend on tour, great! If not, thank God for Skype. There’s not much else that you can do. When you choose this lifestyle it’s not easy, man. Most people can’t handle it, you know? But the four of us – Luke, Troy, Stu, and I – are totally committed to this lifestyle. And we’ll just have to see what kind of toll it takes in the end, I mean it always does take a toll. So, it’s hard but you just make the best of the situation. And I know for me, I’m taking off September next year [2014]. I don’t want to hear the words “Iced Earth” for one month. Because the thing is, man for me it never stops. Like right now I’m doing press and I should be spending time with my daughter. But I’m doing press. I’ve got two days of it, and I’ve got to work a day in the studio next week and when I first got here I had three intense days with my management over the release while the other guys when they go home they go home. They do go and focus on the songs we’re doing in the set of the world tour, while I have to do that also and try to be a family man and still maintain Iced Earth’s business. So, it never stops for me. And the guys realize that, especially when they saw what I go through in a production, because we were all housed in the same place. I mean they know I work all the time, but I think it changed their perspective a little bit. Its not just about playing the guitar I mean the guitar for me is maybe 5 or 10% of my time. Everything else that makes Iced Earth operate is what I have to deal with on a daily basis. So I’m basically getting to the point where I have to take a break because I’ve been doing this for so long my mind and body are telling me “Don’t start hating this thing again.” So we have this plan, and we’re all taking off September but I’m going to be really disconnected. I’m not going to have a phone or a computer for a month and I do not want to hear the words “Iced Earth.” And then I’ll be fully charged and ready to go. I might go scuba diving for a month.
Metal Exiles: You’ve been fighting the good fight for Metal since around 1986. And with Dystopia you began hitting the road and promoting like never before. What goals do you still have for the band, and where do you hope to take Iced Earth in the coming years?
Jon Schaffer: I want to take it to the next level; I mean Iced Earth has been forever kind of trapped as a mid-level band. And I think we can take it further. I don’t have any delusions that we’ll ever be able to take it to Metallica status or Iron Maiden status, though in our fan’s minds we’re already that. I just think we can reach more people, and when you consider that Iced Earth has only opened for four bands in the entire band’s history I think it’s pretty amazing that we have the status that we have. And also considering that after the Horror Show touring cycle until Dystopia very little touring was done at all. And we still maintained a very strong status, but you have to tour in this business, it’s the only way, especially today with all of the internet stuff going on and retail stores closing – if you want your band to stay relevant you gotta be out there playing. And you gotta have the right line-up of guys that are willing to do that and see the big picture and we’re trying to form our own future and become completely independent so that’s what we’re working towards and we have very specific goals set, we have timelines set, we plan things a few years in advance. Like this Volbeat tour was planned almost two years ago. They invited us out to dinner while we were in Copenhagen and invited us out on this tour and we said, “hell yes, we would love to do it.” So a lot of goals get set and you go towards achieving them.
Metal Exiles: Any last comments on the new album or the band that you would like leave with the readers?
Jon Schaffer: I appreciate the support, and we’ll be out there. We have a big full tour coming and we’ll see you guys out there. I just want to say thanks very much for the support, and check out the new record, it’s fucking heavy!
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